tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post4558484624498261921..comments2024-02-25T13:20:09.766-08:00Comments on Stranger than you can imagine: I call Godwin's Lawdaedalus2uhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10416564922288784455noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-77287350780997085762010-06-14T14:59:49.828-07:002010-06-14T14:59:49.828-07:00I have instrumental data showing spontaneous NO pr...I have instrumental data showing spontaneous NO production by these bacteria in vivo (human) coincident with instrumental measure of a spontaneous physiological effect known to be mediated by NO. <br /><br />My conceptualization of the pathways that are involved in “stress”, and the disorders that result from the stress induced activation of those pathways are not “bugs”, but they are “features”. Features that are important stress mitigation pathways. I talk about some of that in my post on the placebo effect<br /><br />http://daedalus2u.blogspot.com/2007/04/placebo-and-nocebo-effects.html<br /><br />and also in the one on the myth of homeostasis.<br /><br />http://daedalus2u.blogspot.com/2008/01/myth-of-homeostasis-implications-for.html<br /><br />If stress results in low NO (it does, see the work of Stefano GB), then anything that results in low NO will trigger the stress compensatory pathways. Every disease that is made worse by stress (heart disease, kidney failure, liver failure, osteoporosis, Alzheimer's, autism, etc.) is made “worse” by the pathways activated by stress, by the stress compensatory pathways. If something is made worse by things that lower NO, it is likely that it will be made better by higher levels of NO. <br /><br />Interestingly, virtually every disorder that is made worse by stress is also characterized by sweating, especially at night, called “night sweats”. My interpretation is that night sweats result from physiology trying to raise NO/NOx status by releasing ammonia to a biofilm it expects to be there. <br /><br />We know that bone stiffness is directly regulated by NO. Things that lower NO (menopause) cause worse osteoporosis. Things that raise NO (estrogen replacement therapy, nitroglycerine) cause increased bone stiffness. That is exactly what we would expect if NO is in the active range and is actively controlling bone stiffness (as we know it is). <br /><br />Also, nitroglycerin is not really a NO donor. It does have NO effects, but those are not well understood, and are not a direct result of higher NO (if nitroglycerin was a NO donor). I appreciate that many people say nitroglycerin is a NO donor, but it really isn't.daedalus2uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416564922288784455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-51404706032741782072010-06-14T14:59:14.930-07:002010-06-14T14:59:14.930-07:00I disagree that my assertions about NO are unsuppo...I disagree that my assertions about NO are unsupported. There is data in the literature that supports virtually everything that I have said. I appreciate that there are other explanations, I happen to disagree with those explanations. <br /><br />I appreciate that measuring NO/NOx species is complex and difficult and impossible in many places at levels where it is known to be important, for example sub nM/L in the brain. We know that the levels in the brain occur at where there is acute vasodilatation by NO which is in the few nM/L range. We can measure where vasodilatation occurs using the fMRI BOLD technique which maps out where oxy-deoxyhemoglobin levels are changing. Those particular places also happen to be where NO is changing because it is NO that is causing the vasodilatation. <br /><br />Ammonia oxidizing bacteria are the normal commensals. What grows back after bathing are “weeds”, not the climax species that humans evolved to have on their skin. Ammonia oxidizing bacteria do grow on human skin and suppress and are resistant to displacement (nearly completely as far as I can tell after 8 years) by everything else. They have a 30 times longer doubling time than the heterotrophic “weeds” that cause skin infections and body odor, so it is easy to wash them off faster than they can proliferate.<br /><br />“Stress” causes low NO because low is the control signal that physiology uses to trigger stress compensatory pathways. To maximize aerobic ATP production, cytochrome c oxidase in mitochondria needs to be disinhibited by removal of NO. Superoxide generation by mitochondria does that. Blood pressure needs to be raised to divert blood to the most important tissues, muscle, brain, heart. Low NO causes the vasoconstriction that does that. Xenobiotic substances need to be metabolized by the cytochrome P450 enzymes. Superoxide from them destroys NO and disinhibits them resulting in positive feedback. The respiratory burst generate superoxide, lowers NO which robustly turns on the immune system. Stress causes low NO, low NO disinhibits the rate limiting enzyme for testosterone synthesis, so low NO causes high androgen levels. Androgens cause the growth of hair, which expands the niche these bacteria grow in which increases NO/NOx status and decreases androgen production. <br /><br />The NO/NOx levels that these bacteria produce are controlled not by the quantity of bacteria, but by the amount of ammonia released by sweating. I have data showing prompt NO release (less than 1 minute) following ammonia addition to the scalp. <br /><br />NO is involved in many regulatory pathways. NO regulates the metalization of Zn finger proteins. Zinc finger proteins are the largest class of transcription factors. If metallization of those proteins is regulated by NO, then NO is a fundamental regulator of transcription. NO regulates the ATP level through sGC. Low NO causes low ATP which triggers ischemic preconditioning. NO regulates mitochondria biogenesis, so low NO perpetuates low mitochondria number and high superoxide and low NO. <br /><br />All physiological pathways are regulated with feedback and automatic gain control. What development under conditions of low NO results in is a skewing of physiology to a low NO state. The “automatic gain control” regulates physiology to be in a low NO state so that it is easier to trigger the low NO state so as to respond to stress when that stress arises. <br /><br />When you remove a major control pathway for basal NO (sweating ammonia to the biofilm), whether an organism can compensate is idiosyncratic depending on that individual's physiology.daedalus2uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416564922288784455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-69627224611630671412010-06-14T13:31:16.563-07:002010-06-14T13:31:16.563-07:00This isn't the most appropriate thread for NO-...This isn't the most appropriate thread for NO-related discussion, but seeing as it's the only recent one...<br /><br />I've long been interested the biological functions of NO and ROS (although I'm far more familiar with RNA biology), but your approach seems flawed on several accounts. You have a tendency to mix obvious biologic facts with your (largely) unsupported assumptions about NO. Many of the problems you attribute to NO disregulation (such as stress) also involve altered expression of a plethora of other regulatory pathways. While NO certainly could be a participant, there is little evidence to believe NO or the lack thereof is either necessary or sufficient to these disorders at any stage. Even if low NO levels during development contributed to a disorder, there is no reason to think that NO supplmentation later in life (after a critical period) would ameliorate symptoms.<br /><br />Also, introducing a skin commensal bacteria to supplement NO levels seems wrought with problems as well. At what rate does this bacteria produce NO relative to the known skin/scalp commensals (a significant increase)? Under what conditions do you measure this NO production (i.e. L-argine/etc supplementation?, temp?, can you reasonably extrapolate to behavior on human skin). Can this bacterium even colonize the skin/scalp? Many bacteria cannot and are readily washed away. Assuming it can colonize, can it compete with the naturally occuring microbiome well enough to maintain a sufficiently large population to produce signficantly more NO? Keep in mind that the microbiome is not static or consistent across persons. Will a sufficient amount be produced to diffuse to target regions (do you even have a proposed target region beyond simply "the body" or "the brain?").<br /><br />Assuming NO treatment were potentially beneficial. It would seem there are far better delivery mechanisms. The effects of nitroglycerin and amyl nitrates are thought to be their role the production of NO and other nitrates/nitrites. Although distinguishing between the effects of these compounds and their metabolites complicates the dissection of their functions, the ability to adminster a specific dose is an amazing advantage when investigating a drug's therapeutic effects. The stability of these compounds is an added benefit, the drugs have a sufficiently long biological half-life to diffuse to putative sites of action. NOproduced at a distance, with its short biological half-life, is unlikely to accumulate to signficant levels at the target site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-15330567553824080182010-06-05T18:08:54.605-07:002010-06-05T18:08:54.605-07:00You ask who the catholic church can empathise with...You ask who the catholic church can empathise with, I suggest the answer is 'themeselves'. The can empathise with other celibate relgious of their own faith and that is all. Everyone outside the clergy is the 'other' and less than truely human, which is how they completely fail to appreciate the enormity of their crimes. The children (and others) whom they rape are not real people. They don't count.<br /><br />I predict that the pope's trip to England this year will be cancelled. Too many high profile people are plotting against him, the risk will be too great. They will come up with some other excuse but he won't go.Marellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13797979751977080727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-21284717204204940272010-05-31T08:33:53.575-07:002010-05-31T08:33:53.575-07:00I understand the concept that any sin that prevent...I understand the concept that any sin that prevents someone from going to Hell is justified and is a greater good, and that the leaders of the Church hierarchy in their delusional world view may have felt that is what they were doing. A tiny bit of logic shows that argument to be false. <br /><br />One could remove pedophile priests and keep them away from new potential victims while keeping the abuse secret. If the Church had done that, the number of victims would have been a tiny fraction of what they are. The number of pedophile priests might have been the same, but if they were removed from contact with children at their first instance of abuse there would not be priests with hundreds or thousands of victims. Allowing abuse to continue only increases the risk that it will be found out. <br /><br />Children who have been abused have committed suicide as a consequence of that abuse. Under Catholic Church dogma, suicide is a mortal sin, and suicide victims are damned to Hell. Suicide is a predictable consequence of allowing children to be sexually abused. Every mental health clinician knows that the incidence of suicide is higher among victims of abuse. Catholic Church officials who allowed pedophile priests to continue abusing children knew or should have known that allowing that abuse would lead to suicides and to the damning of children or adults to Hell. <br /><br />The problem is that all Abrahamic religions are top-down patriarchal power structures. Power comes from the top, and that power is there only by virtue of the person being at the top of the power structure. There is no “truth”, there is only what people higher up in the power structure say is the “truth”. Of course they say things to maintain their power. That is the nature of power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only thing that matters is maintaining power. <br /><br />What kind of a sin is it that causes someone else to go to Hell? Of course that is where their myth of “free will” comes in. The abused child who becomes a depressed and suicidal adult doesn't commit suicide as a predictable consequence of depression which is a predictable consequence of the abuse, no, the suicidal adult commits suicide because of “free will”, and so the perpetrators and the enablers get a pass and they get to blame the victim yet again. <br /><br />Don't expect the Catholic Church to change, they don't have the capacity to understand, or the capacity to change.daedalus2uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416564922288784455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-9811098126575506472010-05-30T23:35:16.735-07:002010-05-30T23:35:16.735-07:00As to understanding the justification for hiding t...As to understanding the justification for hiding the truth to protect the reputation of the church, I have often met individuals who sincerely believe that ANYTHING to prevent a person from going to hell is justified. Thus the scandal to the church may hurt the whole message of the "gospel" for some people. So if people reject the "gospel" because of the scandal that person will go to hell [in the minds of some] .<br />There may be people in the loop of the abuse who think this way, then again the narcissistic rage you describe sounds about right too. Many churches and other religions inspire this type of thinking. For example, a young girl being raped, her assailant protected by the church, and the girl herself getting all the blame…and it's the Baptists! http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/its_not_just_the_catholics.phpbubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15699592676923594291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-25722722288916505362010-04-17T01:30:32.149-07:002010-04-17T01:30:32.149-07:00Even if we change the playing field and call the a...Even if we change the playing field and call the acts torture it still wouldn't reach the threshold of a crime against humanity for the reasons I have set down. <br /><br />Also I don't think it would constitute an act of torture as per CAT. The purpose of the rape (or torture if you will) wasn't to obtain the child's silence as it seems that you are suggesting.Alex Mhttp://alexrjmurray.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-66175707510502094662010-04-16T17:17:34.704-07:002010-04-16T17:17:34.704-07:00If you look at the 1984 definition of torture:
ht...If you look at the 1984 definition of torture:<br /><br />http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm<br /><br /><i>Article 1<br />1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”</i><br /><br />Doesn't a priest raping a child in a confessional and then coercing them into silence constitute “severe pain … intentionally inflicted … for such purpose as … intimidating or coercing … when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a … person acting in an official capacity”? <br /><br />Priests have told children their rape was God's will. If the Catholic Church allows such priests to remain priests, then the Catholic Church is not removing their stamp of “official capacity” on what those priests say.daedalus2uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416564922288784455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-39758657394927400362010-04-16T15:05:55.391-07:002010-04-16T15:05:55.391-07:00The claim that the sexual abuse constitutes a crim...The claim that the sexual abuse constitutes a crime against humanity is simply wrong. I've written a piece on my blog which I hope explains things.Alex Mhttp://alexrjmurray.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-61942389877187323412010-04-11T13:13:19.712-07:002010-04-11T13:13:19.712-07:00Excellent article. If the "crimes against Hum...Excellent article. If the "crimes against Humanity" charge can be made to stick, then it will certainly make it interesting when Pope Ratzinger arrives in the UK.<br /><br />Interesting juristictional point - will the Pope be protected by our police or by his own Swiss guards during his visit? And how should the police react to someone attempting to serve a writ (or similar legal instrument) on the Pope?Sean Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09888890768546556641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-75035447721481460662010-04-11T05:07:20.659-07:002010-04-11T05:07:20.659-07:00If they had behaved responsibly, and stopped the a...If they had behaved responsibly, and stopped the abuse when it happened, then it would not have risen to the level of a "crime against humanity". <br /><br />This is no different than military commanders who allow their subordinants to commit rape.daedalus2uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416564922288784455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5491220859163652191.post-8950068400882386852010-04-11T03:39:05.259-07:002010-04-11T03:39:05.259-07:00David, this is very well constructed and documente...David, this is very well constructed and documented. I never thought about the priestly rape of children as being "crimes against humanity", but they certainly are, and as such, anyone who covered it up is also culpable. You also have described the narcissistic rage and the reasons why very well.<br /><br />I do hope the Pope and the other priests who committed and/or covered up these crimes are held accountable. It is an unconscionable act they have committed against children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com